Wednesday, July 20, 2011

Chapter Eight

I'm going to be honest, girls, I've been having a tough go trying to get through chapter eight's commentary. I don't have much to offer today, so we'll see what happens.

1 Does not wisdom call out?

Does not understanding raise her voice?

2 At the highest point along the way,

where the paths meet, she takes her stand;

3 beside the gate leading into the city,

at the entrance, she cries aloud:

4 “To you, O people, I call out;

I raise my voice to all mankind.

5 You who are simple, gain prudence;

you who are foolish, set your hearts on it.

6 Listen, for I have trustworthy things to say;

I open my lips to speak what is right.

7 My mouth speaks what is true,

for my lips detest wickedness.

8 All the words of my mouth are just;

none of them is crooked or perverse.

9 To the discerning all of them are right;

they are upright to those who have found knowledge.

10 Choose my instruction instead of silver,

knowledge rather than choice gold,

11 for wisdom is more precious than rubies,

and nothing you desire can compare with her.
12 “I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence;

I possess knowledge and discretion.

13 To fear the LORD is to hate evil;

I hate pride and arrogance,

evil behavior and perverse speech.

14 Counsel and sound judgment are mine;

I have insight, I have power.

15 By me kings reign

and rulers issue decrees that are just;

16 by me princes govern,

and nobles—all who rule on earth.

17 I love those who love me,

and those who seek me find me.

18 With me are riches and honor,

enduring wealth and prosperity.

19 My fruit is better than fine gold;

what I yield surpasses choice silver.

20 I walk in the way of righteousness,

along the paths of justice,

21 bestowing a rich inheritance on those who love me

and making their treasuries full.
22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,

before his deeds of old;

23 I was formed long ages ago,

at the very beginning, when the world came to be.

24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,

when there were no springs overflowing with water;

25 before the mountains were settled in place,

before the hills, I was given birth,

26 before he made the world or its fields

or any of the dust of the earth.

27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,

when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,

28 when he established the clouds above

and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,

29 when he gave the sea its boundary

so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.

30 Then I was constantly at his side. I was filled with delight day after day,

rejoicing always in his presence,

31 rejoicing in his whole world

and delighting in mankind.

32 “Now then, my children, listen to me;

blessed are those who keep my ways.

33 Listen to my instruction and be wise;

do not disregard it.

34 Blessed are those who listen to me,

watching daily at my doors,

waiting at my doorway.

35 For those who find me find life

and receive favor from the LORD.

36 But those who fail to find me harm themselves;

all who hate me love death.”

Questions:

1) "Does not wisdom call out? / Does not understanding raise her voice?" These first few verses remind me of an episode of Seth and Amy's "Really?!?" on SNL. As in, "Really. You thought it was a good idea to just go have sex with that crafty prostitute, Adulteress. Really. And you thought she was single. Really. And its not like wisdom doesn't call out either, hey? And, oh, right, understanding never raises her voice. Really." You get what I'm saying. Is anyone else struck by this? Or is just me feeling foolish and convicted? Your thoughts?


2) What is (if any) the significance of wisdom taking her stand "at the highest point along the way, / where the paths meet"?


3) Have you ever experienced your lips detesting wickedness? Explain.


4) What is prudence?


5) What are you thoughts on verses 22-31? My mind kind of explodes to think about wisdom being created before "his deeds of old." If you're a bit type A like me, how do you order the creation of everything now? What the heck was going on when there was nothing but God created wisdom? Huh?


6) Any other thoughts?

10 comments:

  1. Also, my apologies about the spacing. I just spent 10 minutes fixing it, and it still looks like this. My bad.

    ReplyDelete
  2. I feel like wisdom does call out, and is as prominent in the world as this chapter describes. I feel like we can hear it, but it's our sinful natures habit of covering our ears to it.
    I love, and also totally get what you mean, relating this to 'really with seth and amy'
    It's almost as if we do things we know are foolish but its evil desires that get us mixed up.

    I think that what really stood out to me was verse 13...
    To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech.

    It stood out mostly for the fact that I have always wrestled with the idea of fearing the Lord and what that meant in my life, having not been raised in the Church. I also started feeling as if one was fearing the Lord, that one was also seeking out wisdom and knowledge.

    Come to think of it, it is pretty scary the idea of disregarding the pursuit of wisdom and the pursuit of God and just drifting into blindness and simpleness. Loving death, real Death. that is very contrary to what i feel God desires for us.

    I apologize for being a poor question answerer, i find it easier for myself to write what is running through my mind as I've read through each passage.

    ReplyDelete
  3. That's the way to do it, Maddy...just write what you're thinking. The questions are only there to assist if you want. No need to answer them! Thanks for sharing!

    ReplyDelete
  4. 1. i laughed out loud in my kitchen when i read "really, you thought it was a good idea to just go have sex with that crafty prostitute? really. and you thought she was single. really." i think you captured it perfectly. like maddy, i agree. i often have some sort of holy-spirit driven conviction that i ignore when i pursue selfish foolishness. however, i think that sometimes wisdom is more subtle and we therefore have to be intentional about how we pursue it. for example, i think we are used to a culture of christianity that takes verses out of context and assumes popular rhetoric to be true. (for example, i remember for years i believed the bible rumour that the "eye of a needle" was actually a place in jerusalem that was tough for camels to get through but not impossible, making it tough for rich men to enter heaven - but not impossible. james debunked that one monday night in bible study saying that there is no such thing, and jesus literally means a needle.) another way that wisdom is more subtle stands out to me in verse 13: to fear the lord is to hate evil. TOTALLY! i love this verse. it encourages me that it's right to hate injustice and it's right to battle systematic oppression and blah blah blah. those things are evil. but how does evil infiltrate our culture in ways we don't see or are conditioned to ignore? money, image, apathy, indifference, praise of riches and wealth, telling ourselves it's ok to get ahead as long as we earn it?

    4. carefully thought out wisdom, paying attention to catch sin, intentional seeking wise decision making, etc.

    5. for some reason those verses made a lot of sense to me. if you think about the fact that god is the source of all wisdom, just like god is the source of all love, then i have no problem accepting that wisdom and love have always been because god has always been. god is love. god is wisdom.

    ReplyDelete
  5. 6. i really like how wisdom is contrasted with money and governance is verses 15-21. wisdom says that "by me, rulers make just decisions" and "with me are riches and honour." israel had a lot of corrupt leadership, as we do now. israel ignored many of god's commands to free slaves, forgive debts, and maintain equal ownership of the land. (and by 2011, those ideas just sound ridiculously marxist to most people.) however, i feel like this is an illustration of god's kingdom vs. wordly "kingdom." in wisdom there is justice and riches, but not in the sense that the world usually pursues justice and riches:

    god's justice = social justice, equality, care for poor, etc.
    wordly justice = lock up the criminal, criminalize the poor, pay back what is "deserved."
    god's riches = more than money, but "treasures" like love, life-giving relationship, meaning, suffering, wisdom, a RICH life, etc!
    wordly riches = obvious.

    this reminds me of a shane claiborne quote:

    "sometimes folks - usually of an older persuasion - ask me if i am an evangelical christian. as with any label - anarchist, activist, radical, christian - i want to make sure we have a proper understanding before i answer. i always find it important to note that the greek word 'evangelion,' from which we derive our words 'evangelical' and 'evangelism,' is an ancient word that predates jesus. it is a word that jesus actually RECLAIMS from the imperial lexicon and turns on its head. for instance, in 6 BC there was a saying that was inscribed all over the roman empire: "caesar augustus has been sent to us as saviour...the birthday of the god augustus has been for the whole world the beginning of the gospel ['evangelion']." in contrast, the early christian evangelists announced another gospel, proclaimed an allegiance to another emperor, and conspired to build another kingdom. if by evangelical we mean one who spreads the good news that there is another kingdom or superpower than that of wall street and oil, an economy and a peace other than that of the nations, a saviour other than caesar, then yes, i am 100% evangelical." --s.c.

    claiborne obviously also thinks telling people about jesus is of utmost important, as do we all, but here he contrasts god's kingdom, its wisdom, and its love with the world's cheap and corrupt imitations of these three things.

    finally, i like this: "lessed are those who listen to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. for those who find me find life and receive favor from the LORD" (34-35).

    love you all! hope these scattered thoughts made some sense.

    ReplyDelete
  6. blessed* not lessed.

    p.s. upon re-reading, i think i should clarify that i feel like by pursuing wisdom, we also pursue this upside-down kingdom that christ advocates and claiborne talks about, because this is his wisdom for his people. i hope that made some coherent sense.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Yes! I am so enjoying all of the comments! I feel uplifted, encouraged and challenged (just the way its suppose to be!)

    ReplyDelete
  8. Lady Wisdom is such a magnificent literary figure. I might just post a picture of her later. There have been many beautiful paintings done of Lady Wisdom over the years- she is such a catch!

    Throughout the old testament/new testament and in greek and roman literature wisdom is given a feminine personification... Sophia is the greek word for wisdom and specifically the wisdom of God. In Vs. 22-31 we see Sophia as a feminine expression of God in the creation story. She is there from the beginning helping to form everything, helping to birth the world into existence which is so carefully and poetically described in this chapter. What a fantastic way to describe creation! Our whole world, including us, was created in wisdom. There was a lot of preemptive thought to creation - it isn't just a random set of events.

    And I think that is so cool!

    So as wisdom calls out in this passage, she is calling us back to our origin in wisdom, calling us back to who we were created to be.
    We are not to find our worth in wealth or possessions, but instead we find our worth in being God's children and being part of his Kingdom coming on earth.

    Besides as vs. 17-21 tells us that God gives us the truest riches.

    ReplyDelete
  9. "really!?!" is my FAVOURITE segment of weekend update! and i do think it's a really apt comparison, nice work.
    i really like the image of lady wisdom standing on the busiest street. it does convicts me because she's making it so easy for us (if we seek wisdom, we WILL find it), yet we ignore her completely. she's so bold and it reminds me that i need to be as bold and outright in seeking god's wisdom.
    the concept of the age of lady wisdom is crazy. she was there with God through everything he has done. she's seen it all before, including each of us. oh and the creation of the universe. unbelievable. i love it because it just shows how necessary/relevant wisdom has been, is, and will be forever.

    ReplyDelete
  10. PAIGE SAYS:


    1. As weekend update always teaches me something new today it showed me just how ridiculous we are sometimes. I picture lady wisdom just looking at our lives and being like “REALLY!? You think that is a good idea!?”

    5. Its a bit overwhelming to think about this lady of wisdom being there the WHOLE time, from the very beginning of creation. It also sounds beautiful and paints a wonderful picture of creation.

    6. I really enjoyed Vs 17 as well, it really jumped out to me. “I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me.” When I hear this I think of those who don’t yet know Christ or know this idea of this type of Wisdom – yet are curious and still searching to learn more. If you have the drive to learn more and seek more God and Wisdom is not hiding. Vs 1 “does not wisdom call out? Does not understanding raise her voice?” This is not hidden from us its right there in front of us and i find that very encouraging.

    ReplyDelete